All DotNet Languages Are Equal?

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In conclusion, if i write an OS, i'll use c++.

An OS will require a lot more than C++...
You'll have to be a Guru working on Assemby either!

Just to open your mind to something this simple:
There are plenty of different CPU's aren't there?
If you make an OS you'll have to use Assembly to use most of their internal functions... But if they're different you'll have to study all of them and make some sort of lib that "translate" all the diferent functions in one single way of doing the same thing.

Just on this I believe you'll loose almost all your hear! :)

Good luck.

Alex :D
 
samsmithnz said:
When did I say that MS invented the Internet? I was just saying that I don't think that Linux would have replaced Windows if it was release 10 years ago.
Geesh , you are all wrong. Al Gore invented the internet.Remember?
 
Final Conclusion

All dotNet Languages Are Equal?

Ok, these are the final conclusion to my original question.

+ All .net languages are not equal even each languages's syntax are not the same either.

+ VB.net and C# are similar, they almost interchangable. Therefore, this is no need for vb.net programmers to learn c#.

+ C# is a hybrid of Java & C++. It was made fully for only .net and its framework.

+ On the other hand, C++.net is just a next version (7) of C++6 with a managed extension of .net framework. It is the only language that can make app running independently from .net framework and windows os. This language is LIMITLESS.

Thanks to everyone for all of your effort to explain me. I think, we go too far from the original question. :D Consequently, i should have splitted this thread into seperated threads. ;)
 
Re: Final Conclusion

I just want to comment on a couple conclusions you've made:


+ VB.net and C# are similar, they almost interchangable. Therefore, this is no need for vb.net programmers to learn c#.

I'm definetly not a C# programmer, but I've still found it useful to learn the c# syntax, espeically want I'm looking for a way of doing something in .NET, and I can only find a C# example. There are some great sites that help with converting between these two now.


+ On the other hand, C++.net is just a next version (7) of C++6 with a managed extension of .net framework. It is the only language that can make app running independently from .net framework and windows os. This language is LIMITLESS.

Note that while c++ is more powerful, its also a lot harder and slower to program in. A good example is that it takes about 1 line in VB/ C# to say Hello World, but in C++, it can take 100.
 
Just to add to the discussion, the next version of Windows(Windows Longhorn) is written 90% in .Net, only 10% which would mainly only include DirectX and the CLR as well as any of the most low level components that are linked directly to the hardware. Microsoft has said that you can actually add Assembly calls to your .Net program so your Managed program can interact directly with the hardware. This means that Windows will probably use C++.Net so they can implement Assembly calls(I think they said they actually were altering the MSIL so the Assembly can be directly added in C# or any Managed app, I don't know if this is correct, it may or may not be) but anything that doesn't interact directly would probably be in C#. They may also use VB.Net in some places, they did use a small number of VB6 apps in Windows XP. This basically shows that .Net can write an operating system with a little help.

Microsoft is viewing Win32 applications as obsolete, in Longhorn they stated that any additions to Windows will not have a Win32 dll and APIs created for them, only .Net applications will be able to use the future additions. They also stated that they will shortly begin hosting Win32 applications as emulations, like old Dos apps in Windows. Since the Windows subsystems are all in .Net, no Win32 application can cause damage because the .Net security will denie permission to alter the subsystems that it doesn't have permission to access.
 
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Ths idea its all cute but if we remember that plenty client computer are still usng Win95.
Worse its that their owners have no idea to upgrade them cause they do its Word and Excel work just perfect and an upgrade would necessarelly mean alse an hardware upgrade...

Based on this i'm beginng to investigate on the mono project cause I'm still having trouble to deploy some of my apps because of this .net problem with Win95...

But the main idea of this its that only about 10 years from the Longhorn release would be productive for us to develop an applcation specally/only designed for this OS...

Alex :D
 
I don't know about you, but if my target user has windows 95 and only uses word and email, they probably won't want my .net application anyway.

I just assume that people have good computers, it sucks, but its a fact of life you have to shell out a couple grand and buy a new computer every 2 or 3 years, less if you like playing games.
 
The problem is that when you work with State property institutions as I do, it's very difficult do make them upgrade whatever it is...

Dispite I agree with you that we must upgrade our computer 3 years max, for some institutions it doesn't work that way.

I'm talking about denny a software implementation that will earn me €10.000+ just because .net doesn't support Win16 and I just don't want to work with old OS's...

Alex :D
 
I feel very lucky in this respect, I work for a private financial company, where all computers have the same OS, are only allowed IE, and are all very powerful (there's a strict 2 year replacement rule)
 
Hey, just when you thought this thread was finally dead and buried. Slashdot.org has a link today about a benchmark test someone did, and a couple of .NET languages were included. follow the link: http://osnews.com/story.php?news_id=5602

If you're not that interested, C# and VB.NET performed very well compared to native C (which does not require the .NET framework to run).
 
U know? I have a funny story today at visualbasicforum.com. I saw someone (MR.A) trying to tell people about vb.net features and tell people to move to vb.net. Then after that, it turns out to be a big war between that vb.net guy with vb6 guys. At the end, admin decided to delete that thread.

Is it a funny story which made by vb6 guys? :D
 
I didn't relieze there was so much resistance from the VB6 guys. coming from VB6 myself, I was very happy to move up to the next thing, VB6 is a good language (if you know how to use it, which imho most people don't know how), but the features of .NET are fantasitic. I'd never go back and I groan when my boss askes me to have a look at an old vb6 project.
 
I dedn't realize it either... I also came from VB5 -> VB6 too and VB.net its just a "must upgrade to".
I know a lot of developes that stuck on their primitive languages and claim that there's nothing better than that! The claims like this that impress me most are from COBOL developers... :p

Ok, now for the Benchmark!
Nicelly donne... it demonstrates that VB.net only looses for C# on I/O but, as they told, the problem it's on the IL compiler not on the language it self...
So, possibly the next version of VB have a better IL compiler... :)

Alex :D
 
The cobol developers are an exception, even the fininical consulting company that I work for uses .NET, but we still have a Vax server for a 20 year old cobol program we've been trying to replace for the last 5 years. but the point is the cobol programmers make a mint.

VB6 already seems like VB5 did 4 years ago. A dead language.

Also a comment on the VB.NET IO, someone stated that apparently the IO still uses the old vb6 compadiblity methods. I'm not sure if this is true or how it would work (conasidering its supposed to be compiled down to the same code, but if its true it might explain a couple of things.
 
It's human nature to resist change. Every halfway competant vb6 programmer who has successfully made the change agrees it was well worth it.
 
It seems that many vb6 guys refuse to move to vb.net. They should have realised that moving to vb.net is inevitable. Sooner or later, whether they want it or not, vb6 will be dead (not 100%).

As i told you about the thread at visualbasicforum.com, many pro that work for company, tend to wait another 10 years before moving to vb.net. They don't want to migrate to .net because they have 5 years of vb code (millions of line), that is difficult to move, so they'd better wait and see. As we know, it's inevitable so at the end they will migrate to vb.net with 5+10=15years of vb6 code. Em... Why don't they think that 15years of vb6 code is much more than 5years of code. :D It is such a funny story.

Microsoft has also announce about the deadline of vb6 support on 31, March 2005.

So if they wait 10 years, i'll see how many vb6 guys will struggle to survive. :D
 
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I happened upon this thread and had to register so I could reply.

VB6 bites. I never met a good programmer who uses VB.

Most VB prgrammers do not understand the nuances of OOP.
They have never programmed service applications or robust COM components and do not program event/message driven applications. Their applications usually resemble scripts and are very inefficient. NOTE, I haven't met EVERY VB programmer so this is a generalization, but the world is run by heuristics and it will continue to be.

Sorry, VB programmers need not apply in my shop.

VB.net does compile down to the CLR, but it is still clunky. There are some truly efficient and elegant techniques available in the .NET world you CANNOT, I repeat CANNOT, implement in VB.NET

Myself, I am partial to C#, but I am a former Delphi (RIP) devotee and C# has the robustness and flexability that was previously only available in Delphi. And the beauty of C# is that I can show my code to the non programming stakeholder and he can, for the most part, read it and tell me if my algorithms are correct. Still, this is due primarily to my using an effective coding style. One that incorporates the nouns and verbs of the problem domain and not because of the language in which I program.

There is no end all be all when it comes to programming languages. A good programmer will be language agnostic. He will simply know how to program. He will have the general skills necessary for effective investgation and be able to leverage any available technology to produce an efficient solution.

Key skill required? A formal education in software engineering.
Why? Because he will know the taxonomy of software engineering.

He will know is meant by such terms as persitance, serialization, instrumentation, and profiling. He will know when an application will call for these features. He will investigate the various implementations and apply the flavor that will yeild the most efficient approach. Effecient does not always mean fastest execution, but also time to delivery, configuration, documentation and revision. thebeauty of .NET, as far as I can see, is its homogeny.

C# might be really smooth fulfilling functional requirement 'A', C++ for functional requirement 'B' and an interop assembly addresses requirement 'C.' Meanwhile, my Distribution manager only knows how to run the VB.NET command line compiler (he uses the command line because he is not a devloper and doesn't need the studio suite, and we are driven by costs) and we are able to deliver the product.

Also, keep in mind, there is a category of applications called 'code generators.' Their development is critical in many areas where traditional applications are not adequate. These applications are developed in one language, take input from the user and output a second application customized toward a specific need.

My last contract, in the pensions industry, called for an application that had to give the user the ability to input user defined FORTRAN procedures that would perform specific tasks for different end users. This program was devloped in Delphi, and consisted of a skeleton executable with defined points where the users FORTRAN code would be inserted. Why fortran? well actuaries seem to only undestand FORTRAN (you think computer geeks are nerds? ever seen an actuary? they make geeks look GQ) At any rate, the user would manually enter fortran code or a reference to an external DLL at specific 'entry' points, press a button, and the result would be a set of executables and libraries
that implement a truely robust, company specific Retirement Plan software suite. Devolping this application meant knowing FORTRAN, Delphi and general windows programming. Did we know FORTRAN going into the preoject? No,. but we knew we had the skills that would enable us to learn it.

To sum it all up. . . VB'ers, learn to program. . . PLEASE! I am sick and tred of having to clean up your code! :p
 
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Now prove what vb.net can't and what delphi can do. I agree that vb6 is a bit low class, but it always helpful and also powerful, that why it is the most popular language around.

I've never realised that Delphi make any sense. I would choose to learn C++ instead, cos who need delphi then.
 
Isn't it originated from Pascal? Those command line thing? When I started VB, soon I play with windows forms. It gave me a favor than C++ or Delphi.
 
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