Quick MCAD/MCSD question

[Denaes]

Do you have to take all of the tests in one day, or can you study for one - take it, then study for another and take that one?

[ThePentiumGuy]

I would think that's possible.

[Denaes]

Damn that was a fast reply :)

[ThePentiumGuy]

lol, I was just browsin thru the forums and I hit refresh, and saw your post ;)

[PlausiblyDamp]

You can pretty much take as long as you want to do the exams - I definately wouldn't like to do them all in one day (most I've ever done is 3 in one day and that was bad enough).

[Robby]

I couldn't imagine doing more than 2 in the same day. They take between 1 and 2 hours each to complete.

[Denaes]

I've heard that MS wants things done THEIR way, even if there are like 20 ways to do it.

 

ie, if they teach you to cut and paste, it's wrong if you copy and paste - then delete your work. Even though thats safer than seeing your work dissapear (as has happened before) due to other programs using the clipboard as well.

 

It appears to me that the MCAD is mostly a written test? I keep seeing books on it and getting angry. I don't want cheat guides showing me what to write, I want to learn all of the fundamentals so I can do it all on my own.

 

Any hands on?

[PlausiblyDamp]

Personally I find it very hard to learn from seeing answers laid out in front of me - I just loose interest too quickly. I find that the best way to pass the exams is to learn the product in question (how it works, how to use it correctly etc) - not only does that get you through the exams but you also gain useful skills in the process.

 

Call me old fashioned ;)

[Robby]

I agree 100% PD.

 

I know a couple of guys that barely know how to open a .NET project nut they passed the first two exams. They only cheated themselves

[Denaes]

I'm going through the MS MCAD books right now (Windows Forms first because I already know a bit about it) and I'm a little dissapointed.

 

I mean there is a LOT of what I do know sprinkled with what I don't know. To me that makes it harder to learn because I get bored reading over things I already know and have known for quite a while.

 

When I got the MCAD Book set, it said it had labs. I was thinking "do this, compare your answers". Nope, it holds your hand through the entire step. I could do the lab without reading the chapter.

 

Add a Menu

 

To add a menu to the project:

1. In the Toolbox, double-click the MainMenu component. A MainMenu component is added to the component tray of the designer and a Menu box is added to the form.

2. In the menu box, type &File

3. Repeat Step two for the following items:

this is a little dissapointing to me. I prefer to learn by doing, not by being shown or told.

 

This is why I'm so good at programming (not compared to some around here) is that I can try something, see it's wrong, try again and learn what I'm doing wrong. As opposed to Social Science where you just read and you're either right or wrong.

 

I learned VB6 in college from a book "Schneider VB6" which like standard books took you through learning loops, variables, logic, etc, but in each chapter and section had problems to do.

 

it would tell you in a paragraph form what was expected and you did it. You could look back over the chapter if you needed help, but its YOU doing it.

 

Anyone know if there are sites like that on the internet? That basically having programming projects/problems, then you do it and compare your answers with the "book" answer?

[mocella]

No, they cheated people that actually know their stuff and earned their MCAD/MCSD designation.

 

I've been at several clients where they hire some "expert MCSD guru" guy who's at my desk asking how to do very trivial tasks in .net/vb, etc that anyone with a small amount of working knowledge of said subjects wouldn't have to think twice about.

 

Once they see a few of these types of people, they don't even bother looking on a resume for the MCSD, so there's no real advantage when all else equal on two resumes.

 

Sad really.

 

I agree 100% PD.

 

I know a couple of guys that barely know how to open a .NET project nut they passed the first two exams. They only cheated themselves

[Denaes]

No' date=' they cheated people that actually know their stuff and [u']earned[/u] their MCAD/MCSD designation.

 

I've been at several clients where they hire some "expert MCSD guru" guy who's at my desk asking how to do very trivial tasks in .net/vb, etc that anyone with a small amount of working knowledge of said subjects wouldn't have to think twice about.

 

Once they see a few of these types of people, they don't even bother looking on a resume for the MCSD, so there's no real advantage when all else equal on two resumes.

 

Sad really.

Which almost makes me cry because I'm getting my MCAD/MCSD's because I know a bit about .net, but as I can't go back to school for another 2 years, I only have an Associates degree in computing - which is worth **** when you're trying to find a job. BS or MS only. Never mind the fact that I've had to do the jobs that some of these "BS" guys fumbled and it wasn't that great a quality of work.

 

I figure I learn a lot, get some accreditation, might lead to a job/s, etc. All for 100 bucks (price of set of books) and tests (unknown amount - anyone know how much they are?)

[Robby]

Since you have the MSPress set, pop in the CD and take the practice exams, they will give a good idea of what to expect on the real one.

[Denaes]

Since you have the MSPress set' date=' pop in the CD and take the practice exams, they will give a good idea of what to expect on the real one.[/quote']

Oh I remember those. Struck me as odd that they were done in Macromedia Flash :D

[mocella]

The tests were $125/test at ProMetric centers, and I assume the same at the Vue centers(is that the other?).

 

 

 

Which almost makes me cry because I'm getting my MCAD/MCSD's because I know a bit about .net, but as I can't go back to school for another 2 years, I only have an Associates degree in computing - which is worth **** when you're trying to find a job. BS or MS only. Never mind the fact that I've had to do the jobs that some of these "BS" guys fumbled and it wasn't that great a quality of work.

 

I figure I learn a lot, get some accreditation, might lead to a job/s, etc. All for 100 bucks (price of set of books) and tests (unknown amount - anyone know how much they are?)

[ThePentiumGuy]

This is why I'm so good at programming (not compared to some around here) is that I can try something, see it's wrong, try again and learn what I'm doing wrong. As opposed to Social Science where you just read and you're either right or wrong.

:D This is why I hate school! :D

[cyclonebri]

Originally posted by Robby Since you have the MSPress set' date=' pop in the CD and take the practice exams, they will give a good idea of what to expect on the real one.[/quote']

 

Another way of learning about what to expect on the tests is by visiting Brain Dumps. Please keep in mind, however, that memorizing questions so you can pass a test is unethical. The only thing a dump should EVER be used for is to practice so your mind can get used to the kind of questions to expect, not so you can learn the material or questions.

 

On another note:

To answer earlier questions, personally I have now passed 2 of 3 exams required for MCAD certification in C#. I have XML web services left (70-320). I have taken these two tests over the course of the last 10 months, and will complete MCAD by the end of a 12 month span (provided I pass the final test by the end of October), and then plan on taking the next year to get MCSD. I would place my level of competency right about about the center of intermediate (3 years full time experience + degrees). For this reason, I did not try to 'study up' on the tests and pass them all at once, but rather learn slowly and apply the knowledge before getting the certs...I highly suggest this be the way that everyone follows. The only guys that should try to take them all in a row or at a short span are those who are experts in the field and don't need to study up for the test.

[mocella]

Another way of learning about what to expect on the tests is by visiting Brain Dumps. Please keep in mind, however, that memorizing questions so you can pass a test is unethical. The only thing a dump should EVER be used for is to practice so your mind can get used to the kind of questions to expect, not so you can learn the material or questions.

 

The dumps are also helpful for the person that can disregard the supplied answers (that are often wrong anyhow) and looking up all the available answers themselves in MSDN and reading up on those topics. This way, the developer has not only read up on the right answer, but several related topics that they otherwise may not have looked into.

 

One site had online tests that people can take and it shows what others answered but it seems like once one person answers the question one way, others just blindly follow, and they're the wrong answers.

[cyclonebri]

One site had online tests that people can take and it shows what others answered but it seems like once one person answers the question one way' date=' others just blindly follow, and they're the wrong answers.[/quote']

 

I would also agree with that statement, and actually I prefer that it be this way...this helps in two fashions:

1) It reinforces those who know what they are doing by making them think about the question and verifying they are correct in their thinking on each question that has the wrong answer selected by the majority of readers.

2) It kind of kills off the people who are just there to memorize answers, because they are getting the wrong information, and therefore when they see a similar question they select the wrong answer.

[irasmith]

Do you have to take all of the tests in one day' date=' or can you study for one - take it, then study for another and take that one?[/quote']

 

I couldn't imagine taking more than one test in a day, at least not personally. I'm just learning my way around .NET and would want to focus on one topic at a time and nail it down good.

 

I too prefer the approach of studying and learning the material itself, not focusing on trying to 'cram for the exam'. The present book that I am using to study for the 70-315 exam stresses to learn the material and you will pass the exam if you know the subject matter, to not approach it from simply 'trying to pass the exam.'

 

The book that I am using does walk you through exercises, but I am finding that if I really pay attention to what I am doing rather than simply working through the steps and nothing more, that I am learning more than if simply just following the steps and not 'thinking outside the box' any fruther.

 

There are some extra challenges in the book where you can work things out on your own. A sample solution is provided with the indication that it is just one possible solution but before looking it over the book suggests you give the challenge a try on your own.

 

I noticed the posts about folks passing the test but not being able to do simple tasks within VS itself. Apparently they did not have the fortune of being presented with an exam which contained simulations in it. The book that I am using to study by indicated that there is the possibility of having simulation questions on the exam where you are given one or more tasks to perform within VS itself. There was further information in the book on how the simulation software replicated the real software in many ways and that you should know how to accomplish tasks in VS for the exam. After all, the 70-315 is about using C#, VS.NET, and ASP.NET to develop web applications.

 

I realize many who pass go to 'boot camps' and other forms of mass memorization to 'just pass the test'. I do not let that discourage me though, I want to learn C#, I want to learn ASP.NET, and I want to learn how to use VS.NET to build applications. By learning how, I can then pass the exam. What will set me, and those like me, apart from all the others is the products we develop and deliver. That is when folks will take notice of our certifications and realize we truly earned them and know what we are doing :)

[Denaes]

The book that I am using does walk you through exercises, but I am finding that if I really pay attention to what I am doing rather than simply working through the steps and nothing more, that I am learning more than if simply just following the steps and not 'thinking outside the box' any fruther.

 

There are some extra challenges in the book where you can work things out on your own. A sample solution is provided with the indication that it is just one possible solution but before looking it over the book suggests you give the challenge a try on your own.

What book are you using? I'm using the MS MCAD/MCSD set

[irasmith]

What book are you using? I'm using the MS MCAD/MCSD set

 

I am using the Developing and Implementing Web Applications with Visual C#.NET and Visual Studio.NET book.

 

I realize this isn't the exam you are studying for since you are going the Windows based route and I am going the Web based route, but if you look the book up then there are links to other books in the series, some of which are for the Windows route of the exams. I haven't looked to see if there are any devoted to VB.NET since I am focusing in on C#.NET instead.

 

Hope this helps. I realize the book may not be to everyones liking, but I am very happy with it.

[Denaes]

I am using the Developing and Implementing Web Applications with Visual C#.NET and Visual Studio.NET book.

 

I realize this isn't the exam you are studying for since you are going the Windows based route and I am going the Web based route, but if you look the book up then there are links to other books in the series, some of which are for the Windows route of the exams. I haven't looked to see if there are any devoted to VB.NET since I am focusing in on C#.NET instead.

 

well you have to take web and win to get your MCAD. I'm taking win first is all. Web next. Then web services.

 

I figure I already know a lot about the win, build that stronger and build off of that for web and build off of web for web services.

 

I'll probobly give that book a lookover or the others in that series, thanks :)

[irasmith]

To get the MCAD, you can specialize in the area of interest to you, web or win.

 

I am opting for web because I have recently inherited several web projects at work and know this is where my time and effort will go, so why not get certified in that area.

 

So I am planning on taking 70-315, then 70-320, then 70-229. This will give me the web with 70-315, XML with 70-320, and database design and implementation with 70-229 (figure would need the knowledge for that since basically all web apps now need a datastore to work from).

 

Looking further out into the future, the MCSD certification (if I make it that far), I would need only two other exams. 70-316 is where I could pick up win for C#, and then the required 70-300 exam. All other requirements or electives for the MCSD would already have been met with my work above on the MCAD.

 

I am focusing on C# because the projects that I inherited were/are being done in that language, a decision made before my involvement by higher ups. I realize there are many ways in which to combine the exams, and I think it is great that MS has laid out a format which allows you to focus in on the area of your interest for the certification.

[cyclonebri]

To get the MCAD, you can specialize in the area of interest to you, web or win.

 

Looking further out into the future, the MCSD certification (if I make it that far), I would need only two other exams. 70-316 is where I could pick up win for C#, and then the required 70-300 exam. All other requirements or electives for the MCSD would already have been met with my work above on the MCAD.

 

I am focusing on C# because the projects that I inherited were/are being done in that language, a decision made before my involvement by higher ups. I realize there are many ways in which to combine the exams, and I think it is great that MS has laid out a format which allows you to focus in on the area of your interest for the certification.

 

You can also use both web and win and save the SQL test for MCSD...either way it works. Personally I did winapps (70-316) and then webapps(70-315) and next on my slate for MCAD is XML web services(70-320) Then next year I will get the MCSD by doing Solutions (70-300) and SQL (70-229). So, either way it works out. It just made the most sense for me to do it this way. I focused on C# because I prefer the syntax (although I work with strictly VB). Also, the syntax is only really about 5% of the question material, the rest is pretty much universal to the .Net framework...just implemented with the syntax of your choice.