Interface Looks Question

vxt · February 4, 2003

I am wondering how to make an application have the new XP office applications look. Here's an example:

http://www.ehaque.com/a.jpg

A lot of apps have this look now-a-days. Wonder how they do it.

I'm not a pro at programming and stuff, just trying to make something using Visual Studio 6. Do I need Visual Studio .NET to make my app look like this?

Thanks :)

Robby · February 4, 2003

here's a sample from Microsoft ...http://msdn.microsoft.com/library/default.asp?url=/library/en-us/dnvssamp/html/vbcs_OwnerDrawnMenus.asp

vxt · February 5, 2003

Hey thanks! Problem solved.. can't afford .NET though. The whole .NET thing is so confusing to me.

February 5, 2003

Hi.

If you can't afford NET then download www.icsharpcode.net/OpenSource/SD/Default.aspx OR which would be better , buy a deluxe learning edition of the language you want to use on EBAY.com. They sell them very cheap 20$ - 40$ which is good cause you get the language and the book, great place to start.

vxt · February 5, 2003

mutant

Thanks for the url.. does this #develop thing have libraries (whatever they are called) to support and use new menu designs in that screenshot I posted? That would be great if it does, just what I want.

And what will I get with the books you suggest I buy? Some kind of software to do this?

I use VB6.

Volte · February 5, 2003

If you use VB6, this is not the forum for you; http://www.visualbasicforum.com.

And no, if want to use VB.NET, then #Develop doesn't have any

libraries that will allow you to do that. You need to set the menu

to OwnerDrawn yourself.

vxt · February 5, 2003

VolteFace

Hey, ya I just came here to ask if I must use VB .NET for this. If it can be done with VB6 then I can go over there to find out how, if I need help.

Thanks

divil · February 5, 2003

It can be done with either.

February 5, 2003

The deluxe learning edition comes with a book and a standard edition of the language tool you choose. The books are very informative. Of course standard edition of software dont have all the features as better editions but it is good thing to check it out before you invest real money into VS.NET

If in near future you decide to buy VB.NET in that set make sure you go to Tutors Center forum and look for post named "Visual Basic .NET Standard Edition - Overcoming Boundaries". The auther made some of the useful templates that are not included in VB.NET standard.

spinko · February 6, 2003

Hey vxt,

If you want to use a great library that includes the XP button mouseover effect go here. The open source Sharp Develop Editor uses this to get that effect. Also like to say that editor is really good and more people should know about this free option to developing in the .Net environment.

http://www.dotnetmagic.com/articles.html

I currently use this in one of my projects that is developed in C# Easy setup and use. Adding that menu interface is a snap.

Hope it helps.

mooman_fl · February 6, 2003

Just to clarify a bit for you so there is no misunderstanding....

SharpDevelop is a wonderful opensource program that is primarily targeted at C#. It can handle VB.Net but there isn't full support for it yet. For example there is no Design window for making a GUI for your program... you would have to add all controls programmatically. A design window for VB.NET will be added at a later time as it is still in the Beta stages and it is constantly being updated.

To use SharpDevelop you will have to download and install the .Net Framework SDK. This will provide the necessary compilers needed to compile your program from either C# or VB.NET code.

I would recommend reading over as much material as you can on the .NET Framework and the differences between VB6 and VB.Net before you jump in and start coding. If you don't you can get lost rather easily.

I made the switch recently myself though and have found it to be great once you get past the learning curve. I might have missed something in my explaination here... but if I did I am sure someone will correct me or add on what I missed.

Good luck :-)

vxt · February 6, 2003

spinko,

Thanks for tha URL, Great stuff! Seems like that dotnetmagic library will do the job. :)

Have you signed up just to reply to my post? Thanks, I appreciate it. :D

mooman_fl,

Thanks for the info. I guess I will have to wait until they put a graphical GUI designer in that #dev editor. Having to design GUI through coding is pretty tedious.

Robby · February 6, 2003

Having to design GUI through coding is pretty tedious.

think of how much more you'll learn. :)

DiverDan · February 6, 2003

Robby's correct...doing it yourself will develop your skills much more. And sometimes your skills are better put in another direction, leaving some of the GUI stuff to those that already invented this wheel. Magic Menus is a great program but it carries an almost 400kb dll with it. If you can afford that overhead then it is probably the most complete free package available. However, if you are looking only for a menu and context menu generator then you might also check out Derrick Blake's cool Menus 2 at Planet Source. he has done a wonderful job and is very available for additional support via email. Cool Menus only adds a small module to your program and the icons are now accessed through your imageList. Give it a look.

vxt · February 6, 2003

think of how much more you'll learn. :)

Well, I'm not sure how much I will learn from coding GUI like that. I mean there are only those "elements" (what are they called?) and their properties or values that you have to set. And I already sort of know how its done too, I just don't want to do it cause its a slower way. But is that worth it somehow? Like can I get more control?

vxt · February 6, 2003

DiverDan,

Thanks. Now that you mention it, I think that 400kb dll is indeed a kind of a downer. But to me it depends on how much of a burden is it for todays systems?

I'm designing a really comprehensive and extremely customizable Clock/Alarm/Reminder/Calendar program which will have to run on the system tray all the time. So it should use as little resource as possible.

Would any of you use a 400kb dll for menu design on such a program?

wyrd · February 6, 2003

Advantages of learning how to make pretty GUIs yourself:

- Less overhead (which means faster programs).

- More customizable (can make whatever you want).

- WAY less in size.

- Will help you better understand .NET for future projects.

- Satisfaction that YOU did it.

Disadvantages:

- Lots of overhead (slower programs).

- You're stuck with what you get.

- Possibility of not being able to fix bugs.

- You won't learn anything except how to plug someone elses bloated program into your own.

- Forcing users to download more then they need.

- Takes about 10 times longer to program from scratch then just plugging in someone elses code.

-----

Now you may be asking.. oh big deal just a little overhead and ONLY 400k more the user has to d/l. Well, sure.. but what about the next user made class library you use, and the next.. and you just keep on plugging in other peoples .dlls for re-usability. Next thing you know, you're stuck with a 20 meg program that you could of done with a little more time and a lot more customized and way faster, and only have the user d/l about a meg or so.

Also, you know that GUI image you pasted? All menus, titlebars, etc look like that under windows XP.

divil · February 6, 2003

No they don't. XP style and Office-XP style are quite different. The image he posted shows the kind of menus that are present in Office XP and Visual Studio .NET. Normal menus and toolbars in Windows XP do not have this look.

wyrd · February 6, 2003

Well then maybe my school has some funky version of XP installed, because that's what it looks like there.

divil · February 6, 2003

XP menus by default are drawn a pale white colour in the background, but apart from that don't look much different from menus in previous versions of Windows. XP toolbar controls are themed with a gradient background and smooth bevels on the buttons, but do not look like Office XP widgets.

Here's a quick snapshot I took of XP menus with the default Luna theme, I find it surprising your school has a theme which makes XP widgets look like Office XP ones.

vxt · February 7, 2003

Its quite different indeed.

I took that screenshot of Word XP on Win98. I did not expect Office XP/2002 apps to look like that on Win98. Microsoft obviously ships some kind of library file for this with Office XP. Wish I could use that one!

wyrd · February 7, 2003

Ah, well I see the difference now (you can tell how often I use the school computers.. almost never, heh). At a quick glance they looked pretty similar to me. :p But when you put up a screen of both then the differences are easier to tell. :) I got confused since they are both white with the "shadow" in the back.

DiverDan · February 7, 2003

Wow...this has really turned into a debate!

And...it's only a menu....

I am a graphic artist and have been one for the last 30+ years (no comments please about the age thing). There are GUI features in some of my programs that represent my talents in this area. But menus are menus and nice menus are nice to look at but don't go much further than that! Minor differences are only minor differences. I think that a programmer's time is better spent developing their program and talents...not reinventing the wheel. If you really want to focus on doing everything yourself then why not write you own OS to run your own language for your own programs? You would certinally learn alot and probably be the best programmer around...but how much effort did you have to go through to get there and what really was your goal. Mine is to write some neat looking Engineering calculators that do reflect some of my graphic background but not to reinvent menus.

Some of this is reminding me of the older and younger male sheep looking down on a group of young female sheep.

Threads · February 7, 2003

Speaking of school... vxt, I don't know your background, but if you are a student at a college or even high school, you can get an academically priced version of VisualStudio.NET

wyrd · February 7, 2003

If you really want to focus on doing everything yourself then why not write you own OS to run your own language for your own programs?

That's taking it a bit far, but since you did bring it up.. in higher division computer science courses you do create your own compilers. Also in data structure classes you create your own stacks and queues, and in some c++ windows classes you create window programs from scratch using the Win32 API. Yes, it's reinventing the wheel, but it teaches you how it works and later down the road if you want to do something that hasn't been done, then you are better equipped to handle it.

The same concept applies in computer graphics IMO. Sure you can use someone elses drawing of a man, but what if you wanted him positioned differently or make your own unique monster? Well you need to know how to draw, not just copy & paste images on to a web page.

Now I know this isn't school, and he may be just doing this project for fun and not going to be looking for a job or anything. But the original post did say something like "I wonder how they do it"... and then, I don't know, some how we ended up talking about the differences between Office XP and Windows XP menus. :D

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