First Impressions on VS.Net 2005

[Denaes]

From what I gather, the beta 1 just came out.

 

Anyone get it yet? Anything strike you as really useful or neat?

 

 

Well I copied a project I've been working on into a test2005 directory and converted the solution over smoothly, but here is what I've noticed so far:

 

1. Things seem like they take a second longer to do than in 2003. Maybe it's just me though.

 

2. Control Placement seems more fluent. The controls seem to almost slide around as you place them.

 

3. The "Error List" seems much nicer. It's broken into 3 tabs: "Errors", "Warnings" and "Messages". Each tell you a description, have a helpful icons (you know its warning by the yellow caution sign), Tell you which file the error is in, which line and which column. Of course you can click to go there.

 

4. Warnings. VB.Net seems to warn you of possible errors in the warning window. It tells you of unused variables ( :D ) and possible side effects code could have.

 

So far I've managed to clear out about a dozen unused but declared and instantuated variables because of Warning Window :)

Edited July 9, 2004 by Denaes

[ThePentiumGuy]

I think its great!

actually, it seems to compile slightly faster for me..

the only main issue for me is the 'lines' running horizontally across my code (just like vb6), and the extra virtual whitespace all over the bottom (scroll down all the way :p)

 

does anyone know how to disable these 2 options?

 

pent

 

edit: oh yeah maybe we should change the title of this thread to "first impressions on vs.net 2005", lest we see 3 more other threads popping up (C++ C# and J#) ;)

[Denaes]

I have had one issue so far that caused me to revert back to 2003 (because this project I'm working has a closely approaching deadline!!).

 

It's not bad, just different. When I build my project it gives me an error saying that the code isn't marked as mine or something. Then there are a few build parameters I don't understand like the dependancies.

 

Nothing bad/wrong with vb.Net 2005, just different.

 

edit: oh yeah maybe we should change the title of this thread to "first impressions on vs.net 2005", lest we see 3 more other threads popping up (C++ C# and J#) ;)

 

C'mon, get real. There would be a C# thread popping up. I don't think J# or C++ would rear their ugly heads. Hardly anyone ever discusses or mentions them here.

 

But I do second that idea, if someone can change the title to VS.Net 2005, that would be swell.

[mutant]

I changed the thread title for you, since you can only change the post title :).

To me, the new IDE looks very impressive. Though im wondering about something, since they say that the Express version is geared towards hobbiysts etc., I got an impression that those versions will somehow be free. Anybody else got that impression ? :) Or will those be an equivalent of Standard versions?

[Denaes]

I changed the thread title for you, since you can only change the post title :).

To me, the new IDE looks very impressive. Though im wondering about something, since they say that the Express version is geared towards hobbiysts etc., I got an impression that those versions will somehow be free. Anybody else got that impression ? :) Or will those be an equivalent of Standard versions?

 

I was also wondering about that and here is the answer MS gives:

 

http://lab.msdn.microsoft.com/express/faq/default.aspx#vbasic

 

What are the Express products?

 

The Express products are an expansion of the Visual Studio product line to include lightweight, easy to use, and easy to learn tools for hobbyists, enthusiasts, and students who want to build dynamic Windows applications, Web sites, and Web services.

 

With the Express products, users can:

 

* Learn how to program using a streamlined, lightweight development environment with built-in tutorial content

* Evaluate the .NET Framework for Windows and Web development

* Create fun and interesting applications for their personal enjoyment or to share with their friends

 

The Express products consist of:

 

* Visual Web Developer 2005 Express Edition, a lightweight tool for building dynamic Web sites and Web services

* Visual Basic 2005 Express Edition, a streamlined programming tool for beginning programmers to learn how to build exciting Windows applications

* Visual C# 2005 Express Edition, Visual C++ 2005 Express Edition, and Visual J# 2005 Express Edition, targeted programming tools for students and enthusiasts who wish to learn the fundamentals of programming

* Microsoft also ships SQL Server 2005 Express Edition, an entry-level database for hobbyists, enthusiasts, and students developers

 

Are the Express products intended to replace Visual Studio?

 

The Express products are not for everyone: for some customers, they will indeed lack the higher-end tools and features that are found in the full versions of Visual Studio. But, our goal with the Express products has been to design tools specifically for non-professionals, while the rest of our product line, such as the Visual Studio Professional Edition and Visual Studio Team System, are still in place to serve the needs of the professional developer. For more information about Visual Studio Team System, please visit our Team System page.

 

# Are the Express Edition products free?

 

We have not announced pricing and licensing and will not do so until next calendar year. For the time being, we can tell you that the Express Editions will be low-cost and will continue to be easy to acquire.

 

To me, it looks like Standard Editions with all of the basic features, but with the complexity hidden behind "hobyist" settings shipped by default.

[Robby]

Did you guys install it side-by-side with 2003? If so, any side-effects?

 

btw, I gonna love that "It tells you of unused variables" feature in VB, I can finally stop chasing my colleages with a broom.

[PlausiblyDamp]

Although not in the current Beta of VS the new Team System is something you will definately like - integrated unit tests and code coverage, plus the ability to set policies on source code check ins i.e. can only check code in if peer reviewed, or percentage of unit tests are passed (providing adequate code coverage is met) etc.

Makes source safe look like, well source safe really rather than a decent code control solution.

[ThePentiumGuy]

i hope the new one has some sort of built in 'FXCop' ;), i havent really checekd

[PlausiblyDamp]

FxCop is included as well.

[ThePentiumGuy]

awesome ;p

 

does anyone else find it annoying that they're making it more like vb6? (i mean i like some of the features from it like edit and continue) but (as i said before) the lines running across all my code gets so annoying sometimes! i wish it was an choice/option rather than a .. cant think of the word.. decision?.. something forced on you :-\

 

pent

[Iceplug]

Well, I can live with it.

My first impression that I got from VS.NET 2005: "Am I really going to have to wait 16 whole seconds before the window shows up?" :p

But, it runs fine now... no more running low on virtual memory.

I gonna love that "It tells you of unused variables" feature in VB,

Yes, that is so nice... good to see our languages coming together. :)

 

Also, if I wasn't completely braindead one day, it even had a built in variable renamer that automatically renames all associated variables when you decide to rename the variable name in the declaration.

The resources look more 'resourcy' than in 2003, which I still can't figure out. :(

But, VS.NET 2005 looks awesome.

does anyone else find it annoying that they're making it more like vb6?

Not sure what lines you are talking about... :o.

[PlausiblyDamp]

I also quite like the integration with SQL 2005 Express. For doing a simple bit of work on a laptop the fact you get a SQL database without the need to go and configure a full SQL server installation can be handy.

[bri189a]

 

C'mon, get real. There would be a C# thread popping up. I don't think J# or C++ would rear their ugly heads. Hardly anyone ever discusses or mentions them here.

 

If I had it I'd be rearing my ugly head with the C#, and the C++, I like to play around with C++ in my free time. I'll go back to VB when you know what freezes over. And I still don't see a purpose in doing J#; I'm sure there is one, just not one for me.

 

:)

[Denaes]

If I had it I'd be rearing my ugly head with the C#, and the C++, I like to play around with C++ in my free time. I'll go back to VB when you know what freezes over. And I still don't see a purpose in doing J#; I'm sure there is one, just not one for me.

 

:)

 

Only thing I can spot with J# is that, just like with C++.Net, you can have it .Net or without. I'm not sure which version of Java it supports though

[mutant]

Only thing I can spot with J# is that' date=' just like with C++.Net, you can have it .Net or without. I'm not sure which version of Java it supports though[/quote'] J# doesn't work without .NET. The programs written in it are not meant to run on Java VM. It uses some specifications from actual Java, I think from version 1.3.* if I'm not mistaken.

[Denaes]

J# doesn't work without .NET. The programs written in it are not meant to run on Java VM. It uses some specifications from actual Java' date=' I think from version 1.3.* if I'm not mistaken.[/quote']

 

Oh, I thought it was like C++.Net, where you had the option to NOT use .Net and just native code (C++ and Java respectively) and run on their own non .Net ways (C++ being native and Java needing a java runtime).

 

My bad if I got that wrong... and if I'm wrong, I can't really see much reason for J# other than to cater to Java people... which I've heard was what C# was popular for.

[samsmithnz]

Why doesn't VS.NET have "bracket matching" yet? You know a way of helping you tell whether or not your brackets have been closed. In Emacs (and this was 5 years ago in College), it multi-colored them when you were typing on that line, so that you could see where the brackets were. I'd love to see that.

 

As for J#, I wouldn't mind if it didn't make you install the j# prereqresite. (yeh i know you can manually bypass that - but sometimes its just too much work and you want to install vs.net)

[ThePentiumGuy]

Bracket matching?

hmm. It seems like an good feature, but that would make your code too colorful.

I think that the indenting is good.

 

has anyone tried C++.net 2005 yet? does it finally have autotab/autoindent like vb.net does?

 

-The Pentium Guy

[Cassio]

I also quite like the integration with SQL 2005 Express. For doing a simple bit of work on a laptop the fact you get a SQL database without the need to go and configure a full SQL server installation can be handy.

 

I've heard Yukon would allow object-relational persistence for .NET.

Do you know if this version of SQL Server has object persistence capabilities?

[PlausiblyDamp]

You can define a column type of XML and then associate a schema with the column - this will allow you to persist objects in a structured format.

Only briefly played with it so I can't really say how good / bad the implementation is though.

[Jay1b]

Lines running across the screen??? I dont follow!!!

 

We use a horrid 12yr old problem at work (by CA of all people), and that has bracket matching.....not coloured but it flashes the start of a bracket when you add the end one. Useful if you have 3/4 embedded. They use colour ones on Excel.

[PlausiblyDamp]

VS does bold the start / end brackets as you type them - so you can see the matching that way. Also if you place the cursor before a bracket (opening or closing) id highlights it and the matching bracket.

[Denaes]

VS does bold the start / end brackets as you type them - so you can see the matching that way. Also if you place the cursor before a bracket (opening or closing) id highlights it and the matching bracket.

 

Is that C# only?

 

I remember that one useful thing from my Java class. You could put your curser in between a set of brackets and it enboldened the pair. VERY handy for figuring out which set you're between.

 

I know VB.net doesn't have that featue - of course no brackets, but also not with their End If, End Case, End Class, etc statements. at a few points with large procedures with a few logic statements, I've found myself getting out a ruler to match up where the If was and which Elseif and End If matched up down the screen (often I had to scroll down).

 

Thats usually when you realize a procedure got out of hand and it's time to refactor it down into possibly a few smaller procedures or maybe make a class out of the whole deal and have the logic handled internally.