irasmith

Howdy once again one and all, It's been awhile since I have posted to the forums here and I had a general question to ask so thought I would seek the information for all of you good folks. While my MSDN Professional subscription still has some time before it expires, I wanted to find out from those who have a subscription exactly how the renewal process works. I was not sure if Microsoft would have a renewal option within your MSDN account so that when you logged into it you could renew it or if you needed to purchase a renewal from a third party and then update your MSDN account with a new license number or exactly what happens toward the end of the subscription time. I have the MSDN Professional subscription, don't think I'll have the spare bucks to upgrade to a higher level so I'm content to renew at the same level as the benefits I am getting from it are adequate for the development work that I am doing at this time Anyone have any thoughts or advice on this?

I have a professional level MSDN subscription. In the product key area I have a product key for Windows 2000 Server however I do not have a cd of it from my MSDN subscription and I do not see it in the downloads area anywhere on line when I log into access my subscription. Does anyone know if an msdn subscriber can still acquire a copy of Windows 2000 Server? I had a need come up that would call for me to load something on it to do some programming work. I had planned to load it as a virtual server here at my home so I could access it that way for the programming work. Certainly not looking for anything long term or heavy use, after all its just little ole me banging on it.

Very good thoughts indeed and I will certainly keep them in mind. Nerseus, you mentioned a new book by MS about Frameworks. Would that new book be the one titled Framework Design Guidelines?

I am currently reading Developing Application Frameworks in .NET by Xin Chen. Even though I am not finished with the book yet, I am finding it very interesting and can see how an application framework would make application development somewhat easier and faster if the nature of the application lent itself to be used within the framework. Just curious if any/many of you were doing development by creating frameworks to build related applications upon or if due to budget/time constraints folks were not putting the effort into framework development and instead focusing in on the specific application development. So what is everyones take on the development and use of frameworks?

There has been a similar type of conversation on the GotDotNet forums, folks have noticed a decline in the posts there as well. Some have felt it was due to the MSDN forums opening up and taking traffic away.

First off, congrads on the good fortune of being in a growth mode, my hat off to you on that one :) You do ask a good question and you do have some good thoughts. After reading your post and giving some thought to it, here are my comments. As far as TDD, as I understand it, the primary focus is to provide a way to constantly test the system under development so that you know when something is broken. True, in working with it throughout all of the building revisions you do get an idea of how something works by virute of trying to figure out why your code changes broke it. I have never attempted it but I guess if you read through and studied the tests themselves then you would learn a lot about how the program was supposed to work. That all being said, I am not an all traditional or all full blown agile guy. I see benefits of both methods and in a way can see many benefits of combining techniques from both. I like use cases very much. If they are done correctly, they can be lightweight documents that will become the hub of your knowledge base. Personally, I like the natural style of reading that they lend themselves to. If you don't go overboard in detail in them then they will allow you to get a very good general idea of what the system should do. From there you can branch out into a combination of other forms of documentation focused on a specific area such as UI as well as using some TDD tools as well. I believe in adapting to the situation and so I never feel one way will fit every situation. I recently had great success on a project where I needed to get several people up to speed quickly on a product. I was very familiar with the product and so I wrote a lot of test cases. I designed each test case to be a lesson in a specific aspect of the product, keeping in mind to focus in on the most common aspects that would come up not the extreme rare exceptions. I designed the test data that each case used to help prove the point trying to be conveyed. By the time the folks who needed to learn the system worked their way through the test cases, they had a really good level of confidence in themselves that they knew a lot about the system and were not frightened off by it. Sure, there were still things that had to be learned, but the bulk of knowledge was transferred by walking through the test cases step by step paying attention to what I had outlined as the expected outcome for each step and comparing that to their actual results. Hence the goal was not to run through the cases as quickly as possible like an automated test. This was a process of reading the goal of each case, the overall expected result that would be the intended outcome, and then walking through it step by step to achieve that goal.

Well, I'm the type that will post a question when I'm stuck or when I am researching something and seek input from a variety of perspectives. Once I get the answers then I am usually set for awhile as I have gotten over my sticking point and and work right along after that. At the moment I'm not really in a stuck point so I'm just plowing right along with my projects. With summer being here I am also spending some time away from the computer.

I am working on a web based project, and one of the areas that I will soon be getting to is the on-line help area. I have acutal user focused documentation that I and others have been writing within MS Word. In looking around at options for creating help file systems, there are several products that have options for taking MS Word files as input and creating web based help systems as output. But I am curious as to what benefit that would serve over simply opening the document up in MS Word and using the option to save as html? The options that I have looked at are RoboHelp and Doc-To-Help. I have not been able to find any Open Source type help file creation systems that generate web based help files, so if anyone knows of any I would appreciate knowing about them as well.

I was rambling through the Internet one rainy day and happened upon this site. Most of my postings are in this particular branch of the forum. Usually in terms of syntax and the like I can work with something and figure it out pretty well. What stumps me a lot are the larger overall issues and so this section is where I come to ask those questions. A great bunch of people and a good community area to be involved with for sure. Keep up the great work :)

Thanks for the insight into the two products. I'm not fully sure yet which I'll start with, and I may end up trying them both in order to find the one that suits me the best.

What you may want to do is check out this site relating to preparing for Vista I have not gone through it as I just discovered it this evening, but hopefully it will help.

A short bit ago I read about MSBuild in the June MSDN magazine article. I was wondering if anyone out there could provide some insight into NAnt and MSBuild having used both of them? Not looking to start a debate or anything of that nature. What I am after is just some insight into what others think that have used both of them. I personally have not used either before but I am possibly looking to utilize one of these tools in the near future and have begun my information hunt about them.

Thanks for the link and I had kind of guessed that is what that particular release would be suited for. I am looking at something a little less 'intense' from the perspective of a fellow like myself using just the normal VS.NET 2005 Professional edition which has no source control system. I have been doing a lot of looking and I will most likely go the subversion route as my source code control solution. I really don't have the spare funds to purchase the VSS product at this time and my MSDN subscription is at the Professional level which does not include a source control product either.

I have been doing some research on the matter and I think it is safe to say that no matter what source code control system you may be using, the one thing that doesn't fit in it directly is the actual database. I have read some suggestions that you put the scripts that it takes to create the database, tables, view, stored procedures, etc. under source control instead. This does make sense to me and it is something that I am very willing to do. My question on the matter is one of seeking the best approach to do it. By that I mean, would I have one large document file with all the t-sql commands for creating tables, a second document for stored procedures, etc. or would it be better to have a separate document for each table, stored prcedure, etc. treating them more like independent source files?

Mskeel, Very good words of wisdome well worded. I personally have had some folks comment to me, keep in mind they are individual developers like myself and so are the only coders where they are located, that they didn't need a source code control system since they were the only programmer. The thought expressed was that since they were the only programmer there was no worry about conflicts and multiple person updates to keep squared away. My comment to them, which tended to leave them speechless, was how they went about handling new development on a project while the current released version was maintained and bug fixed? When I purchased my VS.NET 2005 Professional MSDN subscription at the beginning of the year, I had hoped that VSS would be included as it had been in past Professional level subscriptions. That was not to be the case as with the 2005 product line the inclusion of VSS was placed only in the highest levels of the subscriptions. I have read through some postings ont he MSDN forums where others who were actively using VSS with versions of VS.NET prior to 2005 were surprised and saddened at the removal of the product from the professional level product line. While I too was a bit saddened over the way it turned out, I began looking for alternatives since I am just entering the MSDN subscription and can't afford the premium level packages. I have worked with SourceGear Vault some and found it to be a very good solution which is available at no charge for a single user license. What sparked my interest to look at further alternatives was that my own curosity about Subversion got the better of me. I am just starting to work with it but at this time feel it will certainly meet my needs. I tend to agree that even if you are a single developer, you still should use a source code control system of some kind. It makes your life so much better in dealing with on-going development while maintaining current released products.

I believe the former MSDN Universal subscription translates now into one of several 'Team System' products from MS. Team System I believe has its own form of source code control system. From what I gathered in reading the information on the VSS 2005 product description, it sounded as though it was to be used for non-Team System product lines. The only thing stopping me from taking the plunge with VSS is that with my MSDN Professional subscription it did not come as a part of it so I would have to buy it separately. Its price when bought separate is pretty steep, well I think $500 or so is steep, and so that it why I am considering Subversion from the Open Source arena instead. Since my initial posting of the message here, I have been doning quite a bit of reaidng in the Subversion on-line book (well I downloaded it rather than hook up to the Internet each time I want to do some reading) and I am finding that Subversion will likely handle my needs just fine. Thanks for the input on the other souce code control system. I looked it over and it does seem pretty good. They are doing something similar to what Sorucegear is doing with its Vault product. You can download and use a one user license (or two in the case of the system you suggested) at no cost and then any additional licenses would need to be purchased.

I have noticed in some of the marketing information for VSS 2500 that it is what they call 'project based' rather than file based. I have not used VSS before and so I am a little bit confused as to the benefits of this particular claim. Could someone expond upon this a bit for me? I have also been looking at Subversion, and Open Source product, and it apparently has a following in the VS.NET community, at least enough for someone to develop an Open Source plugin for VS.NET that permits use of Subversion from wtihin VS.NET. So I am just curious about the differences between these two systems and would appreciate input from those of you who have used VSS. I have not ruled out using it myself, excpt that for a single developer it is a rather expensive solution to purchase. I have a MSDN Professional subscrption and at that level VSS is not included so it would be something extra I would have to purchase if I were to use it.

I tend to agree that both commercial and open source will have their places. As a for instance example, I acquired my own MSDN Professional license which gives me the VS.NET 2005 Professional edition. What is missing and available only in the upper tier packages of the MSDN subscription is a source control package. So I turn to an open source alternative, subversion for the source control server, an open source client plugin that works in Windows explorer to make the client connection graphical, and another open source package that plugs into VS.NET itself to permit all the commands to be performed within VS without having to leave it.

I too program for work and as a hobby. I find pleasure in it and enjoy learning new things as technology changes. While I do spend a lot of time at the keyboard, I do get out and do all the 'normal people' stuff such as mowing the yard, trimming the hedges, staining/paiting, and even go on a cave trip now and again. Sourceforge is perhaps the most well known site for group related projects due in part to its nature in Open Source material that powers it such as Linux and the Sourceforge software. GotDotNet is the MS one to help get interest in Open Source .NET based projects. Novell even has its own 'forge' now. On any of these public group sites you will find projects ranging from very relaxed and informal to very structured and organized. These sites are of necessity because of the way they permit the sharing of source code among developers on the project. It saves having someone in the project set up a server at their place and make it publically available to everyone involved in the project.

I'm glad to hear of your happiness and success with the wiki system you opted to give a try. I'll have to admit that other things have kept me from actually spending time working on trying them out myself. As far as I got the other night was looking at the options and thinking of which one I would like to try first. Ironically, the one you opted for is the one that I had thought I would try first as well. I will need to install SQL Express to use it and I do have it downloaded but just not installed on my server yet that has SQL 2000 on it. I'm hoping the two can run side-by-side on the same server :confused:

When it comes to any type of software package in the Open Source arena, at this point in time you will find way more options available in the LAMP (Linux/Apache/MySQL/PHP) domain than you will in the .NET domain. This is because the LAMP arena has had for some time now development tools which were also either Open Source or at very low cost to the developer. I have felt that this is the primary reason that with .NET 2.0 MS opted to develop the 'Express' Editions of the tools and offer them initially at no charge (some of which have been proclaimed now to be offered at no charge indefinately rather than by the initial timeline). In the original post to this message there was a comment made about SharePoint. I use it at my place of work and it does very well for what it was designed to do. Keep in mind the goal behind it was to promote group/team productivity by having a central point for all your MS related documents. Hence, you need MS Office on each client workstation in order to create/edit the documents that are to be shared. Wiki's completely remove the need for any type of office type tool by being completely web based and as a result, SharePoint really isn't group document work like Wiki's are.

Something I have found to be of use when looking around for .NET based Open Source software is to have a look at http://csharp-source.net/ and you can look at the different categories of software. For the Wiki software, the actual link would be http://csharp-source.net/open-source/wiki-engines I personally have not tried any of these yet, but do plan on reviewing them to some extent to get an idea of what is available myself. Happy reviewing.

I rather thought they would begin disappearing, or at least not get the publicity of days gone by, given how the Best Practicies efforts and book series has begun to be put forth lately from MS. Kind of wouldn't be good press to be trying to advance the Best Practices efforts and at the same time loading up more eastereggs in the product base :(

I fully enjoy evening/weekends when I am at home where without interruptions I tend to work without stopping too much. Many times I'll suddenly find myself very hungry only to realize after looking at the clock that mealtime was hours past due. Projects that I tackle like this are just things I do for myself to learn and explore by. Some think its kind of weird that I enjoy doing this but I just happen to be one of those whose hobby is actually their work and as a result it doesn't seem like work to me at all :)

Nate, If you happen to find a network specific forum would appreciate its location being posted here for future reference. I haven't gotten into networking too much myself in the past, however, as I branch out and work on more complex tasks, such as Internet based applications, the need for networking knowledge and assistance is growing as well.