Joe Mamma

what is it you are trying to do??? are you trying to do some processing before the form is actually visible and you want that processing to complete before the form is visible and if the pre-visible process doesnt complete just exit? if so, put your process code in the Main method before the call to Application.Run C# code: public class Form1 : System.Windows.Forms.Form { static bool PreProcess() { // Do something here - keep in mind this is a static method //so you cant refer to instance variables } [sTAThread] static void Main() { if (Form1.PreProcess()) Application.Run(new Form1()); } } Do you need PreProcess to initialize some variables to be used by the form? public class FormVar : object{}; public class Form1 : System.Windows.Forms.Form { static bool PreProcess(FormVar vars) { // Do something to vars here } public Form1(FormVar vars):base() { // Use vars to initialize the form; } [sTAThread] static void Main() { FormVar vars = new FormVar(); if (Form1.PreProcess(vars)) Application.Run(new Form1(vars)); } } perhaps a little more information is in order? Joe Mamma

hrmmmm. . . thats close, only that leaves the templated objects only visible at browse time. I will post to that forum and see if he has any ideas, thanks. joe

Thanks, haven't looked at it, but from looking at the topic text, I think thats it!!! joe- ma-mooie

Try JBuilder Personal, JBuilder also, oracle has a free java IDE available:JDeveloper but I havent tried it. Caveat Emptor. . . Oracles uninstalls are a pain in the !!!! Joe Mamma

Well, Ford taurus is the most popular car sold. . . Would I buy one? no, they suck probably pissed some people off with that one :rolleyes: the FACT is ( note the word fact ) there are things you could not do in vb6 that you could do in Delphi. these things were important qualities a language should have. besides the event/delegate model, the ability to declare variables of a specific class type. before you start saying 'what do you mean? we did that all the time!' here is what I mean - TParentClass = class(TObject) public procedure DoSomething; virtual; end; TChildClass = class(TParentObject) public procedure DoSomething; override; end; TMyClassType = class of TParentClass; TClassProcessor = class(TObject) private fProcessor: TParentClass; public procedure Run; constructor Create(AClass: TMyClassType); end; and the following constructor for TClassProcessor: constructor TClassProcessor.Create(AClass: TMyClassType); begin inherited; fProcessor := AClass.Create; end; and the following definition for Run: procedure TClassProcessor.Run; begin fProcessor.DoSomething; end; now I could write a program that does this: var ParentProcessor, ChildProcessor : TClassProcessor; begin ParentProcessor := TClassProcessor.Create(TParentClass); ChildProcessor := TClassProcessor.Create(TChildClass); ParentProcessor.Run; ChildProcessor.Run; end; You may ask why this is important, I don't have time to explain, but it is. The flexibility that this gives the programmer is immense. Specifically in creating specialized thread/server classes. The fact is you could not do that in VB. therefore the fact is, VB was an inferior language. And I am sorry if you are offended by that. Now, with reflection as part of the .NET framework you can now do it in VB.NET, but now we are back to relevant experience of the programmer as to knowing when and how to leverage technology. I have been careful to include specific examples of the lackings of VB and the conclusions I have drawn about VB development in general and no one has rebutted any of the items I have cited except to say that their feelings were hurt. agreed AS a corrollary to this argument, there are things you cannot do with VB, therefore a good programmer would not rely on it. and by reflection: a programmer that relies on VB is not a good programmer! Smile g-d damn it!!! I am just trying to ruffle your feathers! You act like I just told you there is no Santa Claus!!! Point well taken. . . Still, my advice to new programmers is don't build a dependence on VB. Learn to program with a robust language. When I say learn to program, I mean learn to program in general. Take courses that deal with technique and practices that don't teach the specifics of particular language. Same thing with OS's and RDBMS. learn what an OS is in general/Learn what an RDBMS is in general, therefore you can work on any platform. Its just a matter of picking up a manual to determine how Linux manages processes or Oracle handles locks. Just like figuring out how VB6 handles variables of class types is just a matter of looking in the help file. . . OH NO! VB6 can't do class types!!!! BTW. . . did I tell ya? VB Sucks!!! so back to my original problem. . do I have to create an Add-in project???? now that would really suck!! :) Is there a visual studio forum that someone could point me to? Joe Mamma . . . PS Don't forget rule 62!!! you do know rule 62, dont you???

Dragon, do yourself a favor and download the trial version of Delphi, if on only for one reason. . . to look at the source code for the VCL. Thats one of the things I miss in Visual Studio, I can't trace into the source inside the referenced assemblies. vb6/vb.net/vb whatever sucks as a programming language. In general , programmers who don't realize that are, in my opinion, not real programmers. joe mamma

here, here!!! Efficient programming is more than efficient code. IT is knowing the problem domain and communication with the stakeholders. and often times, they don't know what they already have. For example, that MSDE on their Office Professional disk is probably more than adequate for their needs and they don't need to buy the 50 seat oracle license. This is why I encourage people wanting to become software developers to get a formal post secondary education. In terms of technology, indepth knowledge of RDBMS theory makes the developer indifferent to the DB flavor. Just like a formal background in OS's makes them agnostic when it comes to platform 'linux/Win/Mac? who cares, OS is OS, what do you want to do with the platform, thats what its about!' Non-technically, formal education gives you exposure to other fields of expertise and gives you the ability to communicate in a professional manner across most real-world situations. my 2¢ (ha! I never noticed there is no ¢ key on the keyboard!!!) joe mamma

Actually it was 'embraced by' not 'designed for' the educational community. The same qualities that made it ideal for teaching make it ideal for interacting with non-techies in the real world. But it is such an easy target! :D I feel like Fred McMurray, VB is Humphry Bogart and we are reenacting the Caine Mutiny. Now that is esoteric. 'I tell you, they did steal the strawberries!!!' There is nothing inaccurate about my statements. for Mr. Dragon, who submitted some very neat code that is well documented (bravo!!! do not underestimate the value of good documentation!) you do not understand what I mean by event driven. . . yes you can create events and respond to messages, but you didn't have the event/delegate model until .NET. Because of this, programmers who only know VB lack experience in a vital technique for building robust applications. Dragon's code reinforces my disdain for VB. The same thing could have been done in Delphi in 25% the amount of code, and the code would have needed less documentation, because it would have been straightforward and object oriented. specifically, before .NET, as far as I know, you couldn't do this: If the language couldn't do that, I had no use for it. . . and if the programmer had never done that, I had no use for them. I know this will illicit responses along the lines of 'But I have done similar' or 'but you don't have to do things that way.' and I say to them, 'you have no idea what I am talking about, I haven't the time to explain it - learn to program!!!' That being said, I love C# and I love the new Visual Studio IDE!!! Good to be here. . . now for the reason I initially happened upon this site, maybe you can direct me to an answer. . . I am designing some aspx forms that have a common set of properties and components on them (a template for lack of a better term). I want to add my base template to the list of forms that are available when I select 'Add New Item.' In delphi this was done by saving your template to the code repository. I am sure there is a way to do this in VS, I just haven't been able to find it. thanks for any help joe mamma PS There are plenty of jobs for Delphi developers. . . they are rarely advertised as 'DELPHI DEVELOPER NEEDED' usually advertised as 'OO/COM DEVELOPER NEEDED' but delphi is dead now that there is C#.NET

Ahhh. . . da fuggin' cure! saw 'em at the warner theater during the head on the door tour tour in 84, i think it was, and then had drinks with robert and boris at posuers, the now defunct infamous club in the georgetown area of washington DC. the next year saw morrissey break his collor bone (the queen is dead tour) when an over zealous fan pulled him off the stage as he was reacing out and shaking hands with the audience. other highlights of my early 20's. . . Ray Manzerek (of the doors) playing keys with Echo and the Bunnymen on the Songs to learn and sing tour (with new order and gene loves jezebel, what a lineup!) Joe Jackson Big Worldtour when he told some guy in the audience to sit down and shut up 'I'm trying to work here and the bloke sitting next to you paid to see me do it!' Classic JJ attitude! Depeche Mode Black Celebration tour. Camper Van Beethoven touring to support to our beloved revolutionary sweetheart Love and Rockets ( ing rocked!!!) on the Express tour If you dont own Express your collection is incomplete (IMOSHO) Happy Monday's with Stereo MC's (bez was/is a trip!) Those were the days. . . ecstasy was not only really MDMA but it was and legal!!! I could go on and on! now you may wonder what is in my cd player. . . Poe: Haunted; Underworld: second toughest in the infants Monolake: Momentum Mateo and Matos: Inspirations. . . There is so much good music being made these days!!! rock-on! joemamma

The reason we used delphi was that it gave us the robustness of C++ but was less symbolic. One thing a good programmer must remember is that he must deal with non programmers. When in the real-world, specificlly developing COTS integration applications, he will often find himself interfacing with the problem domain stake-holders. and efficiency is not just about fast code!!! you see a non-programming finance analyst can easily understand //delphi procedure ProcessFile(MyFile: TFileStream) var i: integer; begin for i := 1 to 100 do MyFile.Write( FinanceFunction( i )); end; as opposed to: // C++ void ProcessFile(ofstream MyFile) { for ( int i = 1; i <= 100; i++ ) MyFile << FinanceFunction( i ); } He will know that a TFileStream is a file and what 'Write' does. . . will he know what ofstream is and that << writes to it? probably not. I want the stake holder to beable to look at my code and say 'yes' thats what I want, with out my having to do much explainingg as to what I am doing. Delphi was a great language. Fast! Dependable! Flexible. But no, I am partial to C# for all the reasons I liked Delphi. Again, learn to program in general, programming language used is just a mater of taste. . . except when it comes to VB. . . which was tasteless :p joemamma

vb.net, I beieve, can do almost everything delphi can. . . there is a multitude of things that delphi could do that VB6 cannot. But this isn't about one language over another, it has to do with the type of programmers who use VB. VB programmers do not have experience with using callbacks. I bet you don't use alot of custom events/delegates in your applications, do you? While you can do callbacks in vb.net, you couldnt safely use the AddressOf operator in vb6 when refering to class methods. This means a VB programmer has an extremely limited scope of experience and probably doesn't understand how to develop robust event driven applications. And windows is an event driven platform. I bet you have never developed a windows service, have you? A VBer only knows how to enable and disable menu items, and doesn't understand the beauty of being able to redefine the behavior of a menu item at run-time. Again. . . VB'ers need not apply. joemamma

I happened upon this thread and had to register so I could reply. VB6 bites. I never met a good programmer who uses VB. Most VB prgrammers do not understand the nuances of OOP. They have never programmed service applications or robust COM components and do not program event/message driven applications. Their applications usually resemble scripts and are very inefficient. NOTE, I haven't met EVERY VB programmer so this is a generalization, but the world is run by heuristics and it will continue to be. Sorry, VB programmers need not apply in my shop. VB.net does compile down to the CLR, but it is still clunky. There are some truly efficient and elegant techniques available in the .NET world you CANNOT, I repeat CANNOT, implement in VB.NET Myself, I am partial to C#, but I am a former Delphi (RIP) devotee and C# has the robustness and flexability that was previously only available in Delphi. And the beauty of C# is that I can show my code to the non programming stakeholder and he can, for the most part, read it and tell me if my algorithms are correct. Still, this is due primarily to my using an effective coding style. One that incorporates the nouns and verbs of the problem domain and not because of the language in which I program. There is no end all be all when it comes to programming languages. A good programmer will be language agnostic. He will simply know how to program. He will have the general skills necessary for effective investgation and be able to leverage any available technology to produce an efficient solution. Key skill required? A formal education in software engineering. Why? Because he will know the taxonomy of software engineering. He will know is meant by such terms as persitance, serialization, instrumentation, and profiling. He will know when an application will call for these features. He will investigate the various implementations and apply the flavor that will yeild the most efficient approach. Effecient does not always mean fastest execution, but also time to delivery, configuration, documentation and revision. thebeauty of .NET, as far as I can see, is its homogeny. C# might be really smooth fulfilling functional requirement 'A', C++ for functional requirement 'B' and an interop assembly addresses requirement 'C.' Meanwhile, my Distribution manager only knows how to run the VB.NET command line compiler (he uses the command line because he is not a devloper and doesn't need the studio suite, and we are driven by costs) and we are able to deliver the product. Also, keep in mind, there is a category of applications called 'code generators.' Their development is critical in many areas where traditional applications are not adequate. These applications are developed in one language, take input from the user and output a second application customized toward a specific need. My last contract, in the pensions industry, called for an application that had to give the user the ability to input user defined FORTRAN procedures that would perform specific tasks for different end users. This program was devloped in Delphi, and consisted of a skeleton executable with defined points where the users FORTRAN code would be inserted. Why fortran? well actuaries seem to only undestand FORTRAN (you think computer geeks are nerds? ever seen an actuary? they make geeks look GQ) At any rate, the user would manually enter fortran code or a reference to an external DLL at specific 'entry' points, press a button, and the result would be a set of executables and libraries that implement a truely robust, company specific Retirement Plan software suite. Devolping this application meant knowing FORTRAN, Delphi and general windows programming. Did we know FORTRAN going into the preoject? No,. but we knew we had the skills that would enable us to learn it. To sum it all up. . . VB'ers, learn to program. . . PLEASE! I am sick and tred of having to clean up your code! :p